ASHRAE Journal:
ASHRAE Journal presents.
Sara Omer:
Hello and welcome to this episode of ASHRAE Journal podcast. I'm your host, Sara Omer, assistant editor with the journal. Joining me today is Danielle Passaglia licensed senior mechanical engineer at Smith Group and author of the Engineering Adventures series. She has seven years of experience in the AEC industry and is the outgoing president for the Illinois ASHRAE chapter. In 2023, Danielle was recognized as 20 women to watch in HVAC by Engineered Systems Magazine.
How are you today, Danielle?
Danielle Passaglia:
I'm doing great, Sara. Super excited to be here and really appreciate ASHRAE thinking of me.
Sara Omer:
Yeah, of course. Thanks for joining us today. As a passionate advocate for STEM outreach and women in STEM, Danielle wrote her first children's book, Lucy's Engineering Adventure, to encourage children to learn about engineering in 2021. Since then, the book has been translated into eight languages with additional translations in the work. The Engineering Adventures sequel Lucy Goes Green was released in 2023. As of today in 2024, Danielle's books have sold over 7,000 copies worldwide. But before we talk about Lucy, let's learn a little bit more about Danielle. Can you tell us about yourself?
Danielle Passaglia:
Sure. I am originally from Wheaton, which is a western suburb of Chicago, born and raised. I grew up in a pretty large Italian household and teachers were the dominant career choice in our family, but I decided in high school that I wanted to go into engineering, so I went to University of Nebraska for architectural engineering, got my degree and my masters there, and then moved back to Chicago and I've been here ever since. So I live in the city with my husband who's also an electrical engineer, and our dog, Rigby. That's just a little bit of me.
Sara Omer:
That's great. Thank you. Can you tell us a little bit more about your role at Smith Group and what type of projects you work on?
Danielle Passaglia:
Sure. I'm a mechanical engineer at Smith Group. They are an architectural engineering firm, so they do engineering consulting services as well as architectural services. And my role as mechanical engineer is to be a designer on any type of projects that come our way. I have so far been focusing on a lot of laboratory SI&T projects, but we also do whole gambit, especially in higher education and arts and culture. And alongside doing the mechanical design for projects, I also have some project management duties and that spans across all disciplines, and that's really making sure our projects are financially healthy and on track and all the disciplines are being cohesive in our proposals and our deliveries.
Sara Omer:
Thank you. Looking back on your early career, how did you learn about engineering? I know you said that your family was mainly in education, but what made you want to pursue it as a profession?
Danielle Passaglia:
In high school I got into some hand drafting classes and a little bit of AutoCAD classes, Revit didn't exist back then. And I really enjoyed the design aspect of things, even the constructability side as well. And I started looking into architecture potentially as a major and my parents were very sensible minded and told me to look into engineering as well. And so I just went on Google and looked up different types of engineering and originally I was seeing a lot of civil or mechanical or chemical and they all sounded interesting but not quite a fit of what I was looking for. At one point I was looking at maybe dual majoring in mechanical and architecture or civil and architecture, and I found architectural engineering and it was a fairly new major.
At that time there were only about seven schools that were ABET-accredited with an architectural engineering major. But I was looking through the different programs and it seemed to combine everything I enjoyed about my drafting classes and construction classes along with my engineering, math and science classes. So it was a very niche area, but when I found it, I was full steam ahead into this area. And it was nice in the sense that it minimized my options in college because it was very overwhelming deciding what school I wanted to go to. So having a limited set of schools that had that program actually made it a little easier for me. And I did a couple of summer camps or an introductory seminars just to see what the program would be like, and I just knew I really liked it. I liked the construction industry, I liked this design side. I liked the idea that I would be able to see my projects in person in fruition, so I really liked that and got a scholarship to Nebraska and never looked back.
Sara Omer:
That's amazing. Thanks for sharing that. What obstacles did you observe throughout your journey to becoming an engineer and throughout working in the industry?
Danielle Passaglia:
So engineering, it's still a pretty male dominated field. I would say the obstacles varied throughout my career progression, just in high school searching for majors. There wasn't a ton of information specifically about architectural engineering, but about engineering in general because there's so wide range of jobs and things you could go into. And so it was hard to get a concrete idea of what you'd be committing the next four years plus of your life to, so that was a challenge. And then looking at programs, a lot of these programs were very, again, male dominated and I knew with my disposition, I wanted a balance. I'm definitely still a social person. I didn't want to be confined to only a desk or self-work.
And one of the obstacles when I was going and visiting some of these schools, there was a smaller school that was STEM focused specifically, and 70% of the students were men. I was going to a panel dialogue with some of the professors at the school. One of them at the end was like, "Maybe rethink your major. This is for serious students. It's not something you want to play around with." I was standing next to my mom and we were both kind of open mouth at what was said because you are already discouraging kids before they're even in a program with no background knowledge on these. So I think there's some of that unconscious bias, if that's what you want to call it, going into the field. So that was the first hurdle. And for most people, if you just get unbothered by those comments, it's totally fine and you keep trudging along. And architectural engineering definitely has more balance, I would say, in terms of female and men in the field, which is great, but we're still slightly further back.
So those were some obstacles you're constantly around. I would say though the field and environment has definitely gotten more positive, more accepting, more inclusive throughout my years here. And I can only imagine how far it's improved 20, 30 years back. So that's been an adjustment, but again, for most women navigating, I think it's come leaps and bounds from what it was. Other obstacles though I would say are probably ones a lot of other people experience. I think a lot of self-doubt and basically imposter syndrome. When you're in it, you're surrounded by really smart people and you want to make sure you provide value. And I think just getting that sense of where you can provide value in your field and in your job is really important.
In our industry, it's not always the most positive feedback industry. It's a lot about lessons learned and ways to improve. So sometimes there's not a ton of acknowledgement side of things. So understanding how people want to receive feedback and recognition is really important. And it's something I've had to elaborate with my supervisors over the years of my expectations of how I want to know how I'm doing and progressing or what I'm doing well. And as a supervisor and project manager myself, it's something I always try to relay when people are doing a good job that we want to keep doing just because I feel like there's not enough of that positive energy.
And then last point, I think another thing is whether it's a women or for all people, I think we tend to compete against people similar to ourselves. So as a woman in a male-dominated field, first reaction is to compare myself, other women in the field, which is terrible and it's something I punch down really quickly, when that sums up because it's not something I ever want to do. Women always should be supporting and uplifting other women. I think it's instinctual, I guess, to compare ourselves to others, but everybody brings their own value to projects and part of our industry is to bring in different ideas and different viewpoints, and that's why it works so well. So I think just that internal obstacle of changing that mindset to make sure we're supporting, uplifting other women because keeping women in the industry, having those strong female leaders is going to be really key to keeping women in the industry.
Sara Omer:
Thank you. I think that translates really well into the Lucy's engineering adventures books because I think that that positive change is definitely something that's in your book. So how did you develop the idea for the Engineering Adventure series? Interested in what inspired you?
Danielle Passaglia:
So I have been involved in ASHRAE for many, many years, and when I first joined the Illinois chapter, I started on the student activities committee and soon became the student activities chair. And our student activities are rock stars and they really excel at providing materials for college students, for high school students, but we hadn't had a ton of influence on that K-8 side of things. With the STEM kits, it's great, but we were really looking for more ways to translate what we do to a younger crowd. So during one of our student activities regional trainings back in 2019 in Milwaukee, we were doing a student activities in person training and we were just talking about what was working in our chapters, what we were seeing, what we weren't seeing, and it was a similar tune for all chapters of how can we get more K-5, K-8 kids initiated into what engineering is other than the standard STEM fairs, things like that.
And so I just threw out a book, a children's book. ASHRAE has a publications side of things. We provide a ton of standards and documents and studies, and so why not a children's book? And everybody in the room, which at the time were student activities chairs of other region six chapters, were very receptive, but we just didn't know where to start. ASHRAE's never had a children's book and I was really excited about it and they basically had said since there was no standard for it, see what I could come up with in terms of who to contact or who to discuss to further this along. And I was really excited. So after that training, within two hours I wrote a first draft of Lucy's Engineering Adventure. I already had an idea of wanting to take a kid through a building site.
Because back in college when I was on Engineering Ambassadors and going to school with kids, they'd ask me what I would do and that's how I would kind of explain about buildings, and I'm sure it's a very common way for people to personify what we do to kids, but I knew I wanted that visual portion of the tour and seeing it in person in terms of Lucy's eyes, because specifically for me, that's how I grasp things the best is to be able to visualize and see things. So that was the idea of having Lucy walk through a building with her father to see that. Since that first draft, I was so excited about it. I emailed it to the student activities group and I said, "Hey, I started this draft, let's see where this can go." They had put me in contact with ASHRAE Publications and they had been super helpful.
So between student activities and publications over the course of three years, that was how we formed Lucy's Engineering Adventure. But it was really important for me that I wanted Lucy as a young girl growing up with a father in STEM and mother in STEM in future books, I really wanted her to be the new wave or the new millennium of engineers shadowing her father, taking it in and seeing what it could be.
Sara Omer:
That's great, Danielle, that gave me goosebumps. So it's really clear that you're a strong advocate for diversity, equity, and inclusion. How did that influence the books?
Danielle Passaglia:
I wanted Lucy to be representative of all backgrounds of kids that any ethnicity and gender can relate to their stories. And that's why I wanted the juxtaposition of Lucy's father who was an engineer taking his young daughter. And also in the second book, why we introduced more kids within Lucy's school that all have a diverse background so everybody could find someone they could relate to. When I was working with Gabriella, our illustrator, I basically said, I want Lucy to be ethnically ambiguous. I want anybody to be able to relate to her. And I just think there's not enough representation in our industry for women and/or people of color. And so I wanted to make sure we had that representation. So that was very important and Gabriella did a great job just based on that feedback of creating Lucy and her family and transposing that into the book.
Sara Omer:
Were you inspired by any particular children's books when you were a child, like STEM-related or otherwise?
Danielle Passaglia:
Yeah. I think as a child, it's funny thinking back on what books I read as a kid, it definitely had quite the range, but I really loved Shel Silverstein Where the Sidewalk Ends. I think there's something so fun about reading these poems, "Cannot go to school today, said Little Mary McKay." Things that rhymed and had a rhythm to it really were just so engaging for me. Other books though, like The Giving Tree, Dr. Seuss, there was a whole range of things, but Shel Silverstein was definitely a favorite of mine. And definitely when thinking of how to translate these complex topics to kids, which can be very dry, I knew I wanted something more engaging than just words on paper. And so that was how I decided that I wanted to emulate some of those books I enjoyed growing up.
Sara Omer:
What made you interested in outreach specifically with children, Danielle?
Danielle Passaglia:
So I think part of it was having my mom and my sisters were all and are all teachers and educators growing up. So I was always exposed to the side of teaching and telling kids about what opportunities they have for them. And while I enjoy that aspect, I give teachers a lot of credit. I don't necessarily have the same disposition to be a teacher full time, but I really appreciated and enjoyed that side of things of guiding kids to different directions. And so in college, I had the opportunity to join the engineering ambassador network and that allowed me to go to schools and talk to kids about engineering and doing activities for engineering related things just to get them interested and exposed to it and just curious and spark curiosity.
Because again, I was exposed to sciences but not engineering specific. And again, it's kind of that gray area where kids don't really know where one goes into the other. So I really enjoyed that in college doing the engineering ambassadorship and I wanted to continue that and that's why I continued on as the student activities chair at the Illinois ASHRAE chapter and I still continued to do STEM related outreach either through ASHRAE or Tech Girls or whomever.
Sara Omer:
And you mentioned wanting to emulate some of the books that you loved as a child. Did using a rhyme scheme make it more difficult to execute and communicate technical points to children?
Danielle Passaglia:
It definitely did, but it also made it easier if you think about it, because if I wasn't rhyming, I'm not as cognizant of the verbiage I'm using. When you're rhyming, it helps to use simpler words and you're also constantly in the back of your mind making sure kids that are three to 10 understand these words and know what they mean. So in a way, it simplified that aspect of things. I can't just put a heat transfer into a rhyme if I wanted to or psychrometrics, so it helped dial that back a bit. But definitely in terms of rhyming scheme and just making sure the rhythm was right, that's where I found it more challenging just because there's a certain rhythm we want to keep throughout the books. So we set that standard and now we're going to keep doing that. But I still think the reward is worth it for the effort just because again, it's trying to keep these kids engaged and their parents when they're talking to their kids about what they do, I think it's just a great way to make it fun for them.
Sara Omer:
You talked a little bit about what inspired Lucy traveling to the building site, but what inspired Lucy Goes Green?
Danielle Passaglia:
So we are hearing about sustainability and decarbonization all over the place in our industry for a while now, but more and more as we talk about global warming and climate change. So I wanted the second book of Lucy to be a bit more broad. The first book was basically a way to introduce kids to buildings and engineering within buildings, but that's not all we do. We have a larger responsibility and that comes with climate change and considering how our building use affects that since buildings use up 40% of the energy around the world.
So I really wanted the second book to bring some of these larger issues to light in a way kids could grasp and absorb and understand at their level the impacts they can have just because it's never too early as long as it's in a way that kids can grasp and understand to start entertaining these ideas. So once they get older, it's not something that's so foreign to them when they hear about it. So that was what made me want the second book to be more about sustainability, not just in buildings but all around the world.
Sara Omer:
Getting into specifics, you simplified the concept of solar panel networks for children in Lucy Goes Green. Can you explain how a solar panel network works to our audience of HVAC&R professionals?
Danielle Passaglia:
Sure. So solar panels are basically created with silicone and other conductive materials. When the photovoltaic arrays or solar panels absorb photons from the sunlight, the photons energize these atoms and that causes these electrons to move around within the atoms. And that movement basically induces a direct current across this solar array and that direct current, DC, gets taken and can be inverted to an AC current, which is what we use in our buildings. So that's a very condensed version of how they work, but that is basically how solar panels come together.
Sara Omer:
We're obviously just challenging you and I think just to sort of see the difference between how you communicate this to children and how you communicate it to professionals, but I wanted to ask you the same question about wind turbines.
Danielle Passaglia:
Sure. So with wind turbines, wind causes the blades of the turbine to move through lift and drag and pressure differences across the fins. And these blades are connected basically to a rotor that spins inside the wind turbine. That rotor is connected to a generator and that is how they're turning this kinetic movement energy into electric energy for wind turbines.
Feel like I'm getting quizzed at school, but I like it.
Sara Omer:
Sorry. We kind of had the same question about water storage. How would you explain that to professionals versus to children?
Danielle Passaglia:
And honestly, water storage is more straightforward in terms of explaining it for both people and basically we're just trying to reutilize water. So we're collecting rainwater from the outside. They're typically collected through drains on the roofs or through green roofs, however we want to do it, and they get stored in these bins and they go through a filtration process. But basically we're able to utilize that water in things like our toilet or for non-potable, we are not going to drink it, but other water things we've used in a building just to help offset how much water we're going to take from the city or our surroundings because it is a finite source.
Sara Omer:
I'd imagine that sort of like you said, being so conscious of word choice and when you're doing this rhyme and everything like that, that that would make you just really good at communicating these ideas and simplifying them in general.
Danielle Passaglia:
Yeah. And it also helps me because it's like a nice little refresher, but yes, even something as simple as a wind turbine is what we would call it in the field, but for kids, we're going to call them windmills because that's what they grow up around. That's the toy they get when they're little and they blow across it and it makes it spin. Those are the things they can relate to. So that's why sometimes the verbiage might not be most technically correct, but it's translating to the best of our ability for young audiences.
Sara Omer:
Wind turbines, water storage and solar panel networks. In your career, what are the most important applications for those kinds of technologies that you encounter when you're designing buildings?
Danielle Passaglia:
Unfortunately, I don't get to have as much exposure to wind turbines or photovoltaics as I would like. There are a ton of projects that do use it. A lot of times that type of machinery or equipment requires a lot of land or space. So sometimes in big cities those are hard to acquire, but a lot of times buildings will use wind turbines or solar panels to offset their building loads, whether they're locally there or they might be utilizing credits from them that are further away. But I think the idea is to explain more sustainable measures we can take in designing buildings. Personally, we're seeing a big push for electrification. So rather than using fossil fuels, we're looking into using electric equipment like heat pumps, things like that, geothermal, using the ground's natural reserves to reject our heat and to offset our cooling that we're using in a building. Geothermal is a lot harder to talk to kids about, but those I think are what we're going to be seeing more commonly, at least in more dense areas.
Sara Omer:
And in your work with Engineering Ambassadors and as an author of STEM books for children, how do you encourage the interest of children, especially girls in engineering?
Danielle Passaglia:
I think the biggest thing is just try and be a good role model for them to see that women can be in these fields. I think the biggest misconception that kids feel like they have to be amazing at math and science and they have to get into those, they have to test up in grade school to get into those ace level classes to be an engineer, consider engineering, and to me that's flawed logic. I think the biggest thing I try and tell these kids, it's really about curiosity, being able to ask questions and solve problems. So I always ask them, do they like to solve puzzles? Do they like to think of ways to do things in different ways than just one? I think just inspiring that curiosity for them is great.
And also just showing that again, the stereotypical engineer isn't the case, that there's many different faces to what an engineer is. They don't have to be quiet, they don't have to be social, they can have whatever makes a personality is there's not a one shoe fits all. And so I think that's the biggest thing I try to convey with kids. And also that it's just fun. That's why doing activities is just a great way to show that what we're doing is application based. And that's always, to me, the most fun is when I can physically see or do something with my hands and the impact it has.
Sara Omer:
What kind of engineering activities do you like to do with kids?
Danielle Passaglia:
So I have a couple, but one of the ones I think is a great thing anybody can do at home is doing like handmade roller coasters using pipe insulation from Home Depot and a marble and tape. You can convert this roller coaster into different things and kids can see the impact of kinetic versus potential energy with the marble and pending on where the roller coaster starts and stops and does the marble come off the track? And there's so many different solutions to get one to work, which is great because kids can get really creative.
Another activity I really like to do is giving them just a bunch of different tools and different materials and they have to create a little sound box and they're trying to make the box as quiet as possible. And you can put a little music box in the box that plays and then you measure how much sound you hear on the outside just to see how effective your little noise box is. I think that's really fun. Kids can kind of see the difference of how vibration and acoustics can cross over through different materials depending on softness or materiality. So that's really fun as well. And then I always love a good pressure drop one. So you have a glass of water and some straws and you have a kid try and suck water out of the straw. It's pretty easy, but then you tie three more straws up so it gets longer and longer and longer and they can see how much more difficult it is to slurp the water up. That's always a fun one as well.
Sara Omer:
Those do sound really fun. So when you're talking to kids about your books, do you get a lot of questions at those readings from children?
Danielle Passaglia:
I do. I think it definitely depends. Kids are always a little shy at first, but some of the questions I get are as general as, is engineering hard or what do you do in a normal day and do you work on any trains? So some of those questions get a little, just more in the general sense. And one of the fun things about engineering is every day is different and I think kids really gravitate towards that. So some days I'm on site or sometimes I'm in the office or sometimes I'm at home. So having that flexibility where every day is different, every project is different, they really like that. Some other questions they ask, again, they don't get too technical because it's more on the general sense, but how do buildings stay up or how do you design a building? And there's just so many obviously facets and cogs that go into that. But I always like to tell them this is an area where you're constantly communicating with other people, whether it's architects or contracts or other engineers. So communication is really helpful.
Sara Omer:
So we put out a call to kids who might have questions about engineering leading up to the recording of this episode called this segment, Ask an Engineer. And we definitely got some how do you build a building questions, but there's definitely some interesting ones as well. So our first question is, if you were going to build a building, what material would you use?
Danielle Passaglia:
That is a hard one because there are so many options. I don't specifically get to pick. That is something that an owner and engineers and architects can decide together, but what we are seeing a bit more of are actually timber buildings, which are made out of wood and that is actually meant to be more sustainable for our environment. So we might be seeing more of those later on, but a lot of buildings are made with concrete and steel.
Sara Omer:
This question I think was modified a little bit to hopefully get at what was meant, but why does dew form on windows?
Danielle Passaglia:
Dew or condensation typically occurs on a surface when the temperature of that surface is at or below a dew point of the surrounding air. And for any kids listening in your house, when you have a thermostat and it says 72 degrees, we call that a dry bulb temperature. And that typically not taking account moisture in the space, but every space also has a dew point temperature and that's measuring the amount of saturation in that space. So when a cold surface like you have a glass of water that's really cold water inside, that surface is lower than your room's dew point, you're going to start to get liquid and condensation on that surface.
Sara Omer:
That seems like a very good explanation. How do you build a skyscraper so that it stays up?
Danielle Passaglia:
So lots of people get involved when it comes to building a skyscraper, but there's a lot of studies that go into it, and this is where structural engineers are going to be the rock stars of that design. But typically it requires a lot of studies to take into account how all of that load, which is the weight of your building, and all the people inside it travels down to wherever it is. So skyscrapers, they typically have really large foundations which are underground, helps keep the building up. And then they either have a core or an exoskeleton, which is basically just structure that keeps the building up.
And for super tall skyscrapers, there's some other cool things that can be included like two-mass damper, which is basically a large mass made out of, could be water or can use steel, and it basically hangs up at top of the building. So that helps with wind. So if wind is trying to make a building turn one way, that big mass that's suspended up high in the building counteracts that load. The best way I can explain it for kids is like if you are trying to balance a baseball bat, like a tip of a baseball bat on your fingers, and as it moves one way, your fingers move the other. And that's kind of how a two-mass damper works in relation to a building staying up.
Sara Omer:
Yeah, I love the baseball bat analogy. That's so great to visualize it that way. This is my personal favorite question. It is, what are the parts of an airbox thing?
Danielle Passaglia:
Yeah, that's great. I don't exactly know what type of box, I'm going to assume they're talking about an air handling unit or a terminal box. But basically for an air handling unit, it's a big box, like they said, it's a big airbox and the parts of it, again, typically you have a part that connects to the outside so you can bring fresh air into your building because everybody needs fresh air. You typically have two parts that connect to your building. So you have a supply that is supplying air into your building, you're having a return that collects used up old air from your building back to the unit, and then you have a little exhaust that goes outside. So it's basically a coming and going in two directions to the outside and to the building, and that's how we bring fresh air and heating or cooling to your spaces.
Sara Omer:
Thank you. I think that airbox thing is definitely exactly what you meant by choosing the verbiage that a child would understand because yeah, maybe it's an air handling unit, maybe it's something else. But thank you for that explanation. And our last question is, why are different rooms different temperatures in a building or house?
Danielle Passaglia:
If it's in your house that's because one of your parents controls the thermostat and they don't want you to touch it. But in a building, different rooms typically will have some different temperature requirements. For example, an office space will have a different temperature requirement than a room that has IT equipment just because those rooms can get a little hotter. Typically office spaces or other areas in a building, they all have a general similar temperature anywhere from 68 degrees in the winter to 74 degrees in the summer. That's just because ASHRAE decided in a standard that that optimum thermal comfort, which thermal comfort for any kids listening is a temperature at which most occupants, majority of the people in the building are comfortable at. They've determined that range typically happens between 68 to 74 degrees with a certain 50% relative humidity. And so that's where most buildings get designed to.
There's obviously sometimes a high or low. It can fluctuate based on what the owner prefers or what people prefer, but for the most part, that's what it's based off of. And in buildings we typically design to a man wearing a suit, a shirt, a jacket. So it tends to be a little colder sometimes for other people, but the intent is it's easier to put on a sweatshirt or a sweater than to take stuff off. So they design to the most conservative point basically. However, who knows if that'll change in the past because maybe that's not always the most inclusive for everybody in the building, who knows? But that is for other ASHRAE members to decide, not me.
Sara Omer:
Thanks Danielle. So that wraps up our kids' questions. What's most gratifying to you about the book's response?
Danielle Passaglia:
I think the most gratifying is just how far it's reached, which is just amazing. Hearing from other chapters that have purchased a large amount and donated to local schools is awesome. It's just so exciting to see people really be receptive to this idea because it really was just a passion project. I wasn't sure if it was going to take off. And seeing the translations are amazing. I wish I could speak another language. So it's amazing that there are so many motivated volunteers that are willing to take their time to do that translation, and I wish I could speak them and read them just so I could enjoy the book all over again.
Sara Omer:
Looking forward, will Lucy be aging into more advanced stories and content, and will more characters be introduced? Are they going to be other age targeted books?
Danielle Passaglia:
I think as for other characters, I am trying to be cognizant as the series grows to introduce additional ones because I love Lucy and I've tried to include her parents and other class members to try and initiate that, only because I don't want Lucy only to be for young girls. I also want young boys interested in STEM to be able to read the books and enjoy them. So I am hoping to start introducing more characters and to highlight that.
In terms of advanced stories and content, I think that's really, depending on the demand for it, I knew there was a need for this kind of K-8 type of book, but it's also easy to keep it short and sweet. As you advanced in age of the readership, the books tend to get either longer or you look into some of those types of chapter books. And I don't know if children are really going to want to read a chapter book about HVAC. Maybe if it was correlation to any school education in conjunction with something they're learning in the classroom, I think it would definitely could be utilized. But I don't see it in terms of a fun take a book off the shelf type of thing. But we'll see. I think I'm always keeping an open mind to what people would want for that.
Sara Omer:
Kind of along the same lines, what, if anything, can you tell us about the third Engineering Adventures book?
Danielle Passaglia:
Started the third book draft right after I got the second one out. My idea for the third book is to start introducing the idea of decarbonization for kids. And the reason I wanted to do that is because decarbonization is a very hot topic right now. I think it aligns well with sustainability. I think there's a lot of talk about it. And again, I want it to be something that kids can relate to, so their carbon footprint and how that can be impacted. So it would definitely be on a smaller scale maybe, but looking at how their carbon footprint can grow or change based on the choices they make throughout their days. And ideally, I would love to have the focus not on just Lucy, but also on her classmate Ricky. So to bring in a boy's viewpoint to the stories as well.
Sara Omer:
That sounds really exciting. So thanks for sharing that little secret. I'm hoping we can share that with everyone, but if it's top secret, that's okay too. Well, thank you so much for joining us, Danielle. Can you tell our audience where they can pick up Lucy's Engineering Adventure and Lucy Goes Green for themselves?
Danielle Passaglia:
Sure. Both books are sold at the ASHRAE Bookstore online, including all of the translations for Lucy's Engineering Adventure, and they are also sold on Amazon and physical copies at the ASHRAE bookstores during any of the conferences.
Sara Omer:
Thanks again. I think I speak for all of us at the Journal and at ASHRAE when I say that we're looking forward to Lucy and her classmates next adventure.
Danielle Passaglia:
Thank you so much for having me.
ASHRAE Journal:
The ASHRAE Journal podcast team is editor, Drew Champlin; managing editor, Kelly Barraza; producer and assistant editor, Allison Hambrick; assistant editor, Sara Omer; associate editor, Tani Palefski; and technical editor, Rebecca Matyasovski.
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